Re: druid's role in prison ministry Searles Mon Mar 10 18:35:37 2003 fhionamacg wrote,*br*<snip>*br*: Kelly says that an outsider (doerad) has limited *br*: rights under the law. (p5) *br*:*br*: In a narrow sense then, the incarcerated *br*: individual is an outsider, for that person is not *br*: a member of a particular social grouping, in this *br*: case, a local spiritual community. Thus, they can *br*: be said to be deorad, and as such, the spiritual *br*: community is under no obligation to them. They can *br*: also be considered an outsider because by being *br*: convicted of breaking the law, they can be said to *br*: be outside the law, and the moral social order.*p*I think the key to applying Brehon Law in this situation is defining the extent of the law and the family as it applies in present day society for this type of individual and their effect on the communities in which they live.*p*Brehon Law assumes that the social order is such that families will insure that the right thing is done once that is identifed through precedent. Who fills that role in today's world and in your local area of community? All too often, it is the state which is an impersonal, bureaucratic, uncaring morass of ineffective programs. If this individual was a member of one of your communities and followed their code of living, then the answers would be more straight-forward.*br*:*br*: However, the flip side of that is, that in a *br*: holistic sense, they are a member of the larger *br*: community of humanity, and could, in this sense, *br*: be afforded comfort under the law. *br*:*p*True enough. There has to be a direct relationshio between care, understanding and enforcement for a Brehon Law decision or advisement to work.*p*: But...the persons in question irregardless of *br*: whether they are deorad or part of humanity have *br*: already placed themselves outside of the law, thus *br*: becoming in essence, "an outlaw". Thus, *br*: in being a convicted outlaw, the law itself is not *br*: required to succor them, thus they would not be *br*: eligible to partake of lawful learning. *br*:*p*This is the case unless they are brought into your community by you or another member. I suppose that is why the answers and resolution of this dilemma is so hazardous.*p*: The Triads ( A compilation of Triads, John F *br*: Wright, 1995) make several very clear references *br*: to the types of persons one should not consort *br*: with: the perjurer, the drunkard, the sloth, the *br*: thief, the oathbreaker, the ravisher, the traitor, *br*: etc. If one should not consort with these ppl , *br*: then one should shun them.*br*:*p*This collection of Triads is from a wide variety of traditions and has been modified by John Wright Applying them to any situation within Brehon Law, requires examples from the tales and traditions. If no examples exist, then the spirit of the law must be interpreted by a Druid, a File or a Brehon for the community.*p*: Yet the Triads also say, that we should not judge *br*: others, that we should judge kindly, be *br*: compassionate and merciful to others.*br*:*br*: As well, the Triads state that it is the duty of *br*: the F'ili to: teach thier ppl to live fearless in *br*: strength, to teach thier ppl how to avoid the *br*: attention of the Mighty Ones, and to teach thier *br*: ppl the Laws of Nature...*br*:*p*I think that the Laws of Nature as well as the Common Law should be considered along with the Brehon Law. This is what the pseudo-historical preface to the Senchus Mór says IIRC.*p*: Which leads back to the question, who are the ppl *br*: of the Druids? Is a prison population considered a *br*: part of the community?*br*:*p*They are if you make them a part of your extended family/community or if you consider that the way your community is structured such that they cannot be excluded. That's the question that you seem to be facing.*p*: However, there are three ppl who are accursed: *br*: they who work against the Laws of Nature without *br*: concern, they who know nothing of the Mighty Ones *br*: and do not seek to learn, and they who know much *br*: and do not share their knowledge with any other.*br*:*br*: The criminal who upsets the social order, is *br*: working against the Laws of Nature, and more so if *br*: he or she does not actively take steps to redress *br*: the wrong and make restitution, as well as one who *br*: does not take steps to change thier life for the *br*: better, and in such a way so that they uphold the *br*: law.*br*:*br*: One who seeks to understand the Mighty Ones, or *br*: who seeks to establish a personal sprititual *br*: relationship with Deity, however they percieve it, *br*: is to be commended and supported, and perhaps even *br*: given lawful learning...for that individual is not *br*: without concern. *br*: The Druid, who seeks to withold lawful learning *br*: from another who is seeking and or who is worthy *br*: to receive that learning, is cursed by the Gods.*br*:*br*: But: Can a Druid lawfully impart knowledge to an *br*: individual who is outside the law by reason of *br*: being incarcerated? *br*:*p*A Druid can impart knowledge where that knowledge will be honored and accepted in the same spirit of truth in which it is offered. IMO if the spirit of truth and honor is not within the subject or the person being evaluated, then truth and honor will be done a disservice if they are given away or even offered.*p*Searles druid's role in prison ministry fhionamacg 1121 Mon - Mar 10 - 3:59pm 68.62.167.177