Re: The Matter of Human Sacrifice Searles Thu Mar 4 15:37:59 1999 *br*:*br*: (continued from previous message)*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "I imagine that there is at least one person on this side of the curtain who is chosen to continue working with the spirit/sacrifice on the other side for at least a year. In some tribes it was a common practice when someone crossed over for a close relative/friend/mate to be relieved of duties for the span of one year so that they could "funnel" information to this side from the one who had just crossed over. This was done by prior arrangement, at least with the people that I have talked to. It was done so that the tribe could benefit from having someone able to see, hear, and understand things affecting the tribe and to give advice/information from that freed/unlimited perspective of being on the other side of the curtain. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Now we are ready to discuss the events leading up to the sacrifice that was made at Lindow Bog in 60 CE by a Celt that we have come to know as Lindow Man or as he is called by Anne Ross and Don Robbins...... "Lovernios." The year 60 CE was known as the "Dark Year," because it was the time when Boudicca was defeated by the Romans under Suetonius, with the resulting slaughter of most of her troops. The Romans determined to end the power of the Druids in England as a political force. To do this they attacked the sacred Isle of Anglesly also called Mona (or Mons). *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "The Romans were led by their general Suetonius. He was pretty much known as a really hard-nosed, blood and guts type of general... took few prisoners. As the Roman troops stood across the Menai Strait, watching the Druids cast spells and hurl curses at them, they also saw Druidesses in black robes and wild hair running among the men building power against them. Many of the troops wanted to flee and to desert but their leaders threatened them and whipped them back into shape and they attacked fiercely. The results of this battle, against largely undefended Druids, were that thousands upon thousands of Druids were slain by the single-minded Romans. Some of the Druids were able to flee into the hills to lead the guerilla warfare that lasted for the next 400 years. The Romans had defeated the power of the Druids. Enter the next phase of the conflict. The Druids realized that they could not defeat the Romans head-on so they did what they had always done after a defeat. They went to the Gods. All the life-force energy, power, and spirit of countless Druids had been freed by their deaths during the slaughter at Mona, but remained unfocused, a waste, without form. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "In the nights after the battle a Druid prince landed on the Isle of Mona too late to help stop the carnage but not too late to be the focus for one of the most powerful workings in the history of the Druids. The Sacred Grove had been destroyed and cut down so this mysterious Druid Price who we shall call Lovernios made his way up the river past were present day Liverpool is to landfall near another sacred site called Llyn Cerrig Bach. "The Lake of the Small Pebbles" It was there that he was to start the rituals that led to his eventual sacrifice. The time of the year was Bealtaine. His last meal was one of a traditional Bealtaine cake which consisted of a variety of grains which were blackened This blackened bread is always the last meal of the ritual sacrifice in Celtic tradition. This tradition of receiving the blackened cake persisted in Scotland until the last century. At the time of Bealtaine a cake would be cooked and divided into many pieces and placed into a hat. One piece would be blackened with charcoal. The men and young boys would select pieces from the hat. The person drawing the blackened piece would be known as the "devoted one". In modern times the devoted one was not sacrificed but was required to perform some sort of deed. This deed could be called something called "Riding the Lord". which basically consisted of being hazed around the bounds of the village. Another version of this type of deed might involve having to jump the Bealtaine fires three times, while everyone else only had to jump the fires once. These customs have persisted for thousands of years and on this night the devoted one was the Divine Victim, Lovernios. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "When the body of Lindow Man was recovered from the bog it was discovered that he had suffered a threefold death. His skull had been crushed from a blow by a war ax (or a ceremonial ax that came from above). His throat had been garroted, and at the moment of death, his throat had been cut with a knife striking from below.... draining his blood ritually into a cauldron. This threefold death is symbolic of his dedication to three different Gods. These gods represent the three different worlds. The Skyworld, the Middleworld, and the Otherworld. Ross and Robins think that this sacrifice was to the gods Taranis, Esus, and Teutates. Are these the three gods of Danu? Perhaps? Perhaps not.*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Why the threefold death? And what elements do these deaths represent? It is my contention that death occurred because he was sacrificed to the Three Worlds and the primary elements that they represent. The blow from above crushed him to the element of earth below in the form of the ax. The middle death was given to the element of air due to the garrote (cutting the connection between Earth and Sky). The upward blow of the knife, that cut his throat, represents the element of water due to the loss of blood. It also freed his Spirit to the Sky. These three elemental deaths: loss of breath, loss of blood, loss of awareness, left Lovernios as a being of Fire and Spirit. He became a shamanic entity, a willing sacrifice to focus the life-force of the Druids on their Magical working. His body was cast into the lake at Lindow, its name meaning "Black Lake" in Welsh. He was returned to the Mother Goddess of Life and Death just as the sword Excalibur was cast into the lake of the Lady. His body returned to the Mother, his spirit and life-force, his fire performed the Magical working. This all happened in 60 CE This is within decades of another similar sacrifice on the other side of the world where another great magician did a great working. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "This date, this Dark Year of the Druids, 60 CE marks the time when the Roman empire quit growing and began to decay. The willing sacrifice and death at Lindow by Lovernios, was done to prevent the Romans from going to Ireland and into Scotland. It was not a case of Draíocht against spears. It was a case of the Draíocht of the Spirit working its Way and its Will upon the soul of the empire. There have been other bodies recovered from bogs such as Tollund man and those found at Borremose. None is so clearly the work of Druid Draíocht and sacrifice as the case of Lindow man. The king or the prince was sacrificed to the Land and to the Lady, to the three gods of Danu as it has always been. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "To my brothers and sisters in Europe, where this story still lives and where this Draíocht still works, I say, "When you visit a sacred site... when you touch the spirit of a stone monolith or circle... open the pathways within yourselves, and talk to our brothers and sisters from the past." Within each of these circles is a fellow Druid and Celt. The spirit of each of these rocks talks to us. They live for us. They are there to connect and reconnect us to the land. Many a foundation was secured by such as sacrifice. Merlin himself narrowly escaped being sacrificed to secure Vortigern's Tower. These sacrifices were all willing. They were all a threefold death to free the fire of the spirit and to lock the Draíocht of the "devoted ones" to the sites. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "I'm not sure where I read this but someone once did a psychic working at a sacred site in Brittany, I think, and talked to such a Devoted One. He stepped from the rock and his spirit wondered where were the people? What is the focus of their spirit? Why do they no longer love the land? The stones are not silent. Lovernios speaks to us across two thousand years. The Lady of the Lake has given us back a Druid Prince. The Draíocht continues and now it is up to us to do the work. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "I have rambled a bit today....<G>*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "There is so much more to say and discuss about this particular topic. *p*M & R : What's your opinion of the symbolism of the torc? Ross & Robbins.. suggest it may symbolize the sacrificial garrote, but you... seemed to suggest earlier that it could be a conduit to the chakra points. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "I suggest that the torc is emblematic of the chakra associated with communication. It is the point at which the head connects to the body... the Celts believed that the soul lived within the head. That is one reason they kept heads... to control their enemies and not allow them to reconnect with their bodies.*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "I could never really accept that the torc and the garrote were equivalent. I'll think some more about this....*p*DoveHawk : I would think the self sacrifice of Lovernios is not much different than the self sacrifice one performs when, going to perform a suicidal commando war operation, since the purpose was rallying the passed druids against Rome ... *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Lovernios made a one-way trip into the divine realms.*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "He is similar to those that gave their spirits to the stones themselves.*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "His death was probably done after he had left his body anyway. I am referring to him probably being in a meditative, altered state and out of his body, prior to his being sacrificed. The suddenness of the threefold death completely separated him from the physical allowing him to be a spiritual commando of sorts.*p*Parsifal : In my rather limited knowledge of the Celtic past, I though that torcs were a warrior's right, only to be worn after one had been "blooded" (i.e. been in battle, killed a foe)? BTW many other cultures have had/ have the belief about heads (Montagnard tribesmen in Vietnam took the heads of foes, US Marines got the name "leatherneck" from a leather neck band they wore in the late 1700's for fear of their souls wandering the earth if their heads should be cut off)*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "I believe that women also wore torques as well as Druids who were not warriors.... The Gods themselves were depicted as wearing torcs. Cernnunos was shown with two of them in one depiction. A torc was a symbol of ranking.... so, one had to achieve something significant to wear one. You couldn't just wear one because you could afford one for instance <G>*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Excellent point about the taking of heads going across cultures. Clay (then DoveHawk)*p*Clay : Lovernios's trip was probably not one way in the thinking of the druids if you take into account belief in reincarnation. Lovernios probably came back as powerful if not more powerful than before. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "I've wrestled with that point. Some deaths were one-way....I'm almost certain of that...based on the account of the psychic I gave.*p*Clay : It would be conceivable that one would be more willing*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Lovernios's leg had been broken to prevent his spirit from wandering from its purpose. Other bodies have been found that buried without jaws...*p*Clay : toto be sacrificed if that person was coming back with the power of the gods at there back or front... as it were.. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "this to prevent them from uttering harmful curses after death. OK...sorry I jumped in so soon.*p*Clay : sorry. I am bad at protocol.*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "The only thing Lovernios wore was a fox fur arm band ( a symbol of his clan/totem?)*p*Clay : a lesson I am still learning..*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "To always be connected to the clan was a great honor. Perhaps the fact that Lovernios body has been returned from the Mother is a sign to us all? Maybe now is the time of the return of the Druids? Maybe the thousands upon thousands now all walk the earth again? Maybe there will be a new gathering at the "Black Lake"? In this time of times as the wheel turns....Draíocht is afoot in the Land once again. Thanks for your comment...*p*DoveHawk : My question is in line with Clay's, the grafting of spirits to stones seems to prevent subsequent reincarnation. How does one reconcile this, with the evolution of spirits ? *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Spirit lives in all the world around us. The form that it takes is seemingly important to us as we perceive the physical world. In the larger scheme of the Cosmos or Bith.....we are all brothers.*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Becoming a consort of the Mother is not a fate that prevents evolution of the spirit....it is a transcendence of the spirit. The Earth is a Goddess and we are Her children. Those within stone speak for us to the Mother, The Dagda and through them to the Universe itself. Perhaps there comes a point in our spiritual evolution where we go beyond the need to have a body? *p*M & R : Do you think that Lovernios deliberately chose the blackened cake, or... was it, as with the later rituals, a random choice from a number.. of potential victims. Maybe the torc denoted acceptance of and... acceptability for the role of victim? *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "<really thinking>*p*M & R : <G>*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "My feeling is that the choice of victim is always left to the gods. There had to be many candidates..... There were, after all, at least three sacrificers, or Vates, present to perform the triple death. The torc of Lovernios was not found with him. Ross and Robins theorize it may have been offered elsewhere as a separate votive offering. The torc itself symbolizes to me the circle of the Goddess. It is a symbol of the connection between us and the greater circle of life. The opening in the front allows us to be free....while the enclosure surrounds us and gives us power. Let me ask you, 'What do you think it was? '*p*M & R : No fair! You're the teacher! Will think and get back to you! *p*Parsifal : DoveHawk, perhaps the spirit is being held within the stone - prevented for a time from moving on while it fulfilled duties in the stone? (in reference to earlier question)*p*DoveHawk : Seems another good possibility ...*p*Clay : Do you think receiving blackened bread is akin to receiving burnt toast from your girl friend in the morning....? Just wondering... :) *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Clay ....it depends upon whether you performed your rituals properly.<G> :) *p*Clay : according to the song in the night I did well, but one never knows*p*M & R : How do you feel about Pete Marsh being in the British Museum? Can we talk to him there, or do we have to go up to Lindow? <G>*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "LOL! I would recommend going to the British Museum first to see the empty container..... then go to Lindow to connect with the spirit of Lovernios. I suspect that just being in England is enough to give you a connection... You are after all what you eat!<G> <I will always check my cornbread from now on...> TS has this really big knife that her daddy gave her. and.... well.... you know????? <GGG>*p*Parsifal : lol*p*Clay : :)*p*M & R : The body in the museum is extremely impressive. Very moving, a bit flat though <G>*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "The photos were impressive to me as well....though I would love to see a virtual representation of him. He is the original boneless wonder as his body currently exists....the peat bog dissolved his bones.*p*M & R : There is a hologram which they exhibit when the body's not there(sorry!)_*p*The Oak Brother stated, "Night, All! Thanks, but I have to go! ,*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Sla'n abhaile, Oak Brother."*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "night OB, Sweet Dreams and Safe Journeys*p*Clay : B.B. Oak Brother, Have a great one!*p*DoveHawk : B*B Oak Brother!*p*M & R : BB Oak Brother!*p*Parsifal : good night, B*B!*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "So there we have it......Druids to holograms....what will they think of next?*p*The Oak Brother stated, "'Night, and sla'n, all!*p*DoveHawk : good night!*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "What's the verdict? Do the Europeans vote for having another Celtic Workshop on a Sunday afternoon/evening?*p*DoveHawk : YES !*p*Clay : If you find the brown stain of rusting chain mail on your t-shirt....*p*Parsifal : Only makes sense - cyberspace ritual, now Druid holograms <g>! Yes (vote from the Euro-block)*p*Clay : well you better oil the mail*p*M & R : You have our vote - you give great workshop! A good extension of Ross & Robins!*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Thank you all!<GGG> Warms my Celtic soul....if any of you care to come to Florida.... *p*M & R : Thank YOU for making the effort for Euro time - much appreciated. *p*The Wise Old Druid said, "remember the door here is always open...as the sign says.... "Ce'ad Mi'le Fa'ilte"/ "100,000 Welcomes"*p*Parsifal : Yes - a big danke sch n aus Deutschland for your time WOD!*p*Janis : Does that go for frozen Ohioans?*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "My Wife tells me that is Ce'ud Mi'le Fa'ilte (Scots Gaelic:() My sign got removed.*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "sure thing Janis. come on down and bring the babies with you <GGG>*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "Sure come on down folks....might have to kick Osiris off the couch...he's snoring away in there!<G>*p*Clay : great workshop! Thanks *p*The Wise Old Druid's Wife said, "WOD... your sign got a bit tattered during the painting o' the door dear.*p*M & R : So when are you coming this side of the pond to visit some of these sites??*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "May if we're lucky!!! <G>*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "We will be there in May...comes a Bealtaine.*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "possibly late April*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "At least we will be at Brugh na Bo'inne then.*p*DoveHawk : Thanks for the Euro workshop WOD, you're very welcome to come this side too .*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "(You'd think the two of us were not in the same room!<G>)*p*M & R : Hey, let us know if you're over this way (i.e. London - ish!)*p*The Wise Old Druid's Wife said, "WOD! pfft pfft pfft P',',',',*p*The Wise Old Druid said, "DoveHawk....My pleasure entirely....and for the more adventurous among you, we will do another workshop tomorrow night."*p*- And then his eyes told us that he had ventured *Elsewhere* and we left the grove to the Wise Old Druid and his journeys within -*p* The Matter of Human Sacrifice Searles O'Dubhain 395 Thu Mar 4 15:33:18 1999