Next Installment (and Final, I hope)
TopazOwl

Thu Aug  3 15:42:40 2000
: <How do you worship?*br*:*br*: Since we consider ourselves a nature religion, the ideal *br*: place for our rituals is outdoors, preferably in the woods *br*: or another place away from cities and 'civilization'. This *br*: is not always practical, especially during winter, so we *br*: worship whereever it is convenient.>*br*:*br*: "TO WORSHIP THE DIVINITY OF NATURE, ONE MUST BE *br*: "IN" NATURE. What do you mean wherever it is *br*: convenient? *p*     One might note that we have already expressed that the ideal place for Druid worship is "outdoors, away from cities and civilization."*p*: I am female, I go outside to worship and in *br*: Michigan it is very, very cold at IMBOLC. Try 2 degrees *br*: below. I built a need fire and stood very close to it, took *br*: warm drink and food with me. What do you mean worship *br*: inside? Our ancestors didn't, are we better than they for *br*: some reason? You cannot experience nature from inside your *br*: cozy little home with a heat pump and all it's modern *br*: conveniences. Divine suffered many indignities to*br*: become divine, the trees suffer the snapping of their very *br*: limbs to become giants that can tell the tales of time. You *br*: can't bear to suffer 1 single hour of cold for the Gods? *br*: Come on. *p*     I am also a female and spend hours outdoors in the freezing NY winters every day, and many Keltrians do perform all rites and rituals outside. However, some of our Elders may feel that they have earned the right to avoid the nasty cold, especially if they are not feeling well, and I see no reason to not honor those needs. We must always leave open the option to worship indoors (with the window opened), because it would not be at all fair to exclude someone from worship who just cannot, for physical reasons, spend an hour (more like two) in the sub-zero temperatures of the northern climes on, say, Imbolc.*p*     BTW, saying you "built a needfire and stood very close to it" (past tense) sounds like you've only done this once. :-)*p*: Why do you *br*: go inside to worship as so many sheep before you? Why? *p*     Why must she use such offensive terminology? Why?*p*: The *br*: experience of being freezing cold or soaking wet, or both, *br*: only heightens the experience that you will have, it only *br*: lengthens the plateau that can be obtained. Your ancestors *br*: had no heat other than the need fire. What is the *br*: point?"*p*     And what is the point indeed? What is the point of all this ranting about going outside when we clearly stated that we *do* go outside???*p*: <The purpose of our rituals is to celebrate the Divine *br*: and have communion with the Gods and each other. We do this *br*: mainly through meditation, prayer and invocation of the *br*: Gods, Ancestors and Nature Spirits.>*br*:*br*: "GO OUTSIDE!"*p*     ::: sigh :::*p*: <Most of our rituals are done around a sacred fire (or *br*: sacred candles for indoor rituals).>*br*:*br*: "This sacred candle thing sounds terribly wiccan to me, *br*: what makes the candle sacred? Did you anoint it? Did you *br*: consecrate it to a specific deity? What have you against a *br*: sacred fire of *br*: sacred wood?"*p*    That is not Wiccan at all. That is Celtic. Fire is the vehicle to the Gods, permeating all worlds and existing singly in none. A flame is sacred whether or not it is built of a wood fire or a wax fire. *p*     We have nothing against a sacred fire of sacred wood. We also have nothing against a candle when nothing else is available. :-)*p*: <Our rituals involve the participation of everyone in *br*: attendance. We distribute the ritual functions among several *br*: people, rather than have everything done by a priest and *br*: priestess.>*br*:*br*: "I certainly hope this means you don't have priest and *br*: priestesses."*p*     Why does Tay hope that? Is she planning on joining us? <g> We certainly do have priests and priestesses -- experts who lead the rites and make sure the ritual is appropriate to the working. These are also the people who marry and bury 'em. That is their specialty, one of those specialties we talked about earlier.*p*: <Our rituals also involve the participants through a good *br*: deal of singing and dancing.>*br*:*br*: "Story telling? Games? Rites?"*p*     Yep. Just because it isn't specified doesn't mean we don't do it. :-)*p*: <When do you worship?*br*:*br*: Instead of worshipping according to the modern Calendar, we *br*: choose our times of worship according to the cycles of the *br*: Sun and Moon.>*br*:*br*: "Based on what Celtic literature might I ask?"*p*     All of it. The Fire Festivals are celebrated according to the sun's path in the sky, or didn't Tay realize that? The folklore and old tales are a plethora of moon and star knowledge. *p*: <We celebrate two lunar rites. They are called the *br*: Mistletoe Rite and the Vervain rite. As mentioned before, *br*: the ancient Druids collected Mistletoe on the 6th night of *br*: the moon (roughly the first quarter). Because of this, we *br*: celebrate our Mistletoe Rite on the 6th night of the moon. *br*: Since mistletoe was known as the 'all heal', one of the *br*: themes of this rite is healing. This theme extends to *br*: healing of our community, through a sharing of food and *br*: drink at the rite. The Sun and moon are in a position of *br*: equilibrium at this time, so we also see this as a time of *br*: balance. This is when we seek to find balance in our *br*: lives.>*br*:*br*: "As per Pliny eh?"*p*     Yes indeedy. I think we already talked about taking Pliny's word for it. He was a natural historian, after all, which meant he wrote of what he directly observed, and he certainly didn't lie. Why would we think he would lie about what he observed the Druids doing? *p*: <Our other lunar rite is the Vervain rite. The time of *br*: this rite was also chosen from classical writings of ancient *br*: Druidic practices. It was written that vervain was gathered *br*: when neither the sun nor moon were in the sky. This occurs *br*: sometime during each night, except when the moon is full. We *br*: generally celebrate this around the third quarter. This is *br*: gives us ample time for the rite during the evening hours. *br*: It also places this rite opposite the Mistletoe Rite in the *br*: lunar cycle. Vervain was said to be of aid in working magic. *br*: Thus, the Vervain Rite our time for working magic. The *br*: purpose of magic in a Druidic sense is more like prayer. We *br*: work magic to help effect change in our lives. Druidic Magic *br*: may involve contemplation, meditation, ritual or ecstatic *br*: dance.>*br*:*br*: "Please cite your resources for this quote. Let me *br*: guess, Roman or Christian?"*p*     Which quote? Oh, the explanation of vervain, which isn't quoted, but explained? Well...our placing of it opposite the Mistletoe rite (6th night of the moon) is our personal choice. The other information comes from a couple of sources. The common name Vervain includes Verbena officinalis (the European variety), which is sometimes used interchangeably with Verbena hastata (the American variety). It is called Enchanter's Herb, Holy Herb and Wizard's Plant. Some Druidic connections have come down to us through Celtic folk medicine, and Pliny describes it as being used by Druids for divination. It was ceremonially gathered by the Druids with the left hand when neither the sun nor the moon were in the sky, and a libation of honey was left in gratitude to the Spirit of the plant. It's name is supposedly derived from the Celtic words "fer" ("to drive away") and "faen" ("stone"). *p*: <We also celebrate 8 holidays through the year. These *br*: holidays originally come from two separate cultures. The *br*: solstices and equinoxes, which celebrate the cycle of the *br*: sun, came from one culture, and the 'cross quarters', which *br*: mark the agricultural and pastoral seasons of the Earth, *br*: came from another. These holidays were all adopted by the *br*: Celts.>*br*:*br*: "Uhmmm... no they weren't, I'd like to remind you that *br*: the Christians adopted several and changed them to make the *br*: Pagan peoples of several differing invader cultures feel *br*: more comfortable with worshipping within their walls. The *br*: Gaels celebrated only 4 high days prior to Christianity and *br*: there is nothing in the lore to suggest otherwise. Please *br*: cite your resources again."*p*     Well, we do say quite clearly that they come from two separate cultures. Which part of that didn't Tay understand? As for sources, please see _The Apple Branch_ by Alexei Kondratiev.*p*     As for the "Gaels" only celebrating 4 high days, I highly doubt that. I'm sure they celebrated other things, just like the modern Celtic cultures do.*p*: <In our modern rites, we also relate the cycle of the *br*: year to the cycle of our lives. We choose a specific God and *br*: Goddess (Patron and Matron) to honor at each rite. These *br*: figures each represent a different aspect of our lives, from *br*: youth and vitality to old age, wisdom and finally death. As *br*: the year gets older, the Patron and Matron age as well.>*br*:*br*: "This sounds extremely dualistic to me, somewhat *br*: Wiccan."*p*     I'm sure it does to Tay. This is, however, not Wiccan, as we keep the god and goddess we choose to represent the Land and the Tribe and the Cycle of the Sun (Sky) strictly within a Celtic pantheon, and these deities are appropriate to the feast and the season of the year at hand.*p*     I wonder at this remark. Tay seems to understand the mystery of the ancestors being gods, as she was so adamant about such earlier...but has she missed the mystery of natural phenomenon as manifestations of gods as well? It would seem so.*p*: <Each rite, along with a description of the major theme *br*: and God and Goddess chosen are described below: Samhain *br*: (October 31st) celebrates the last harvest of the year. *br*: Samhain literally means 'summers end' and is the Celtic new *br*: year.>*br*:*br*: "Nope, Samhain literally means "November". *br*: Samhain was the festival that began winter, and was known as *br*: the day between the worlds, a day that the ancestors and all *br*: other spirits beyond the veil find it easier to communicate *br*: with the living. It is the harvest period, a time for *br*: relaxation and rest."*p*     Nope. Samhain *does* literally mean "end of summer," and is now the name for the modern calendar month of November. It is more properly the *end* of the harvest period.*p*: <It is a time of endings, when the last harvest is *br*: completed. It is also a time for beginnings; we set goals *br*: which we will track through the coming year.>*br*:*br*: "This sounds somewhat anglicized. New Years resolutions *br*: and all."*p*     Nope. Every Celtic scholar will agree that Samhain marked the end of the old year and also the beginning of the new year, and as such, was a "between" time, belonging to neither the old year or the new. According to the Coligny Calendar, it was the start of the dark half of the year, as Beltaine was the start of the light half, and as everyone knows, in Celtic belief, dark preceeded light.*p*: <The Dagda and The Morrigan are the Patron and Matron of *br*: this feast. The Dagda represents the bounty of the harvest, *br*: and the Morrigan represents the ending of the year.>*br*:*br*: "I understand the Morrigan as she is the Goddess of *br*: Death and Dark Sexuality,and Dagda in his role as God of *br*: Death, Father of the Gaels, Keeper of the Cauldron of plenty *br*: and so forth, but it seems that you are forgetting some very *br*: formidable Gods, the Fomorii. This is their time as *br*: well."*p*     Some of us do not forget that this is a time of chaos, and so the Fomorii are appropriate to remember at this time, however, we do not honor them. We are Druids, and we honor and promote order, not chaos.*p*: <Yule or Winter Solstice (December 21st) is a time of new *br*: beginnings. The sun is at its lowest point, about to begin *br*: its renewal as the days will start to get longer. The Dagda *br*: continues as the Patron of this rite, his cauldron of Bounty *br*: sustains us through the Winter. Bridget is the Matron of *br*: this rite. She is a bringer of light and represents the *br*: rebirth of the sun's light and the fire *br*: that burns in our hearths (or fireplaces!)>*br*:*br*: "Yule is not a Celtic holiday. Period. The Celtic *br*: Christians celebrate Nolliag."*p*     We have already discussed this above. "Yule" is just a convenient way to say "Winter Solstice" for those who are solstice and equinox impaired, and which was marked by the ancients.*p*: <Imbolc (February 2nd) is still a time when we feel the *br*: cold of Winter. The Celts saw the first signs of spring *br*: during this time. The ewes began to give milk and the Celts *br*: were able to take the first of the Earth's gifts that year. *br*: As the fire of the sun continues to grow, Bridget continues *br*: as Matron for this rite. Angus Og, the God of Young love, *br*: comes in as Patron.>*br*:*br*: "Brighid in her aspect of the fire in the heart of all *br*: women. Her name and it's meaning 'Firey Arrow'."*p*     Correction: Brighid in her *three* aspects as fire in the head, patroness of the smiths' forges, and the fire of the hearth.*p*: <Spring Equinox (March 21st) is when the sun is at the *br*: midway point between winter and summer. The Earth is waking *br*: from its winter slumber. Depending on our climate, the snow *br*: may still be melting, or new plant life may just be starting *br*: to grow. We relate the spring with love as the mating season *br*: starts, Angus Og continues as Patron. Boann, who represents *br*: fertility and growth becomes the Matron of this Rite.>*br*:*br*: "The Gaels didn't celebrate the Spring Equinox. The *br*: sheep and cattle are already in their spring pastures and *br*: have been for some time now. Much work, nothing to celebrate *br*: just yet with exception to everyday living."*p*     The sheep and cattle are *not* already in their pastures. Beltaine is the recognized time when livestock are put out to summer pasture and are driven between the two fires on their way.*p*     I won't address the marking of the solstices and equinoxes again, as I already have several times.*p*: <Beltane (May 1st) brings planting of the new crops. By *br*: this time the plans we began at Samhain and refined though *br*: the winter should start taking physical shape. Boann *br*: continues as Matron. Bilé, for whom this rite is named, *br*: comes in as patron. Bilé represents the increasing *br*: fire of the sun and fertility.>*br*:*br*: "Beltaine was not named for Bile. Bile translated *br*: means, "Sacred Tree". *p*     Yep. And as that sacred tree, he could certainly be considered one representation of what some might call "the Green Man," who is quite appropriate to honor at this time.*p*: The Beltaine festival is *br*: named for Bel and the Bel fire. *p*     One might consider that the names "Bel" and "Bile'" are cognate, one being a continental god and the other being Irish. One might also consider that the Otherworldy fire of spirit courses through the veins of the World Tree...*p*: Boann is the goddess of the *br*: river Boyne. You have to recognize *br*: her as a goddess of both the land and the river, but you *br*: have to remember where she was most recognized. *p*     Boann's name also means "white cow," and as such, is associated with the moon and is the Goddess of the Flowing (river), the blood of the Mother (Sovereignty), and is an ancestor. Why now, suddenly, should we consign her to a certain area?*p*: You are *br*: forgetting the maiden aspect of the summer festival of *br*: Beltaine (Bee al tin nuh) in which one should be recognized *br*: such as Blatant (Little flower) or as some in the Welsh *br*: recognize Blodduwedd (Flower face) and Lugh. As it is a  *br*: season of sun, why not Griane as the Sun herself."*p*     That would certainly be a valid individual choice, but since Celtic goddesses generally represent the Land, we rather like Boann here instead. *p*: <Summer Solstice (June 21st) is the time when the sun is *br*: highest in the sky. At this time the sun is at a balance *br*: point. Since the Winter Solstice, the sun has been climbing *br*: higher and the days have been getting longer. Now the sun *br*: reverses itself, and begins to get lower in the sky, until *br*: it returns to its lowest point at the Winter solstice. It is *br*: a time of ripening, when the fruits start to ripen. Bilé, *br*: represents the glory of the sun at its highest point. Danu, *br*: the all mother, comes in as Matron. She represents *br*: motherhood, pregnancy and nurturing.>*br*:*br*: "Again.. The Celts did not celebrate the Summer *br*: Solstice. And Why would you typify Bile as a solar deity? He *br*: is "Sacred tree", roots reaching into the *br*: underworld, trunk in this world, branches reaching into the *br*: otherworld."*p*     ::: looks around and smiles and sighs and refuses to address the solstice/equinox issue yet again :::*p*     We have not typified Bile' as a solar deity, although we have every right to, as his name is cognate with Bel and he is considered solar by some scholars. See explanation above. Also, the Sacred Tree brings the three worlds together, and what better time to do so than when the earth (Land) and the sun (Sky) are at their full power?*p*: <Lughnasadh (August 2nd) is the time we start to notice *br*: the sun is losing its strength. It is also the time of the *br*: first harvest. Danu continues as Matron. Lugh, who this *br*: festival is named for, comes in as Patron of the rite. Lugh *br*: represents the harvest, and the sun.>*br*:*br*: "Actually Lugh's mother would have been Patron of this *br*: festival as Lugh named the day as her day."*p*     Some Keltrians also remember Tailtiu at this time, who, incidentally was not Lugh's mother but his foster-mother. She was a Fir Bolg. Since we honor the Tuatha de Danann as our pantheon, Tailtiu can be remembered as the cause for the funeral games, but she would not be the goddess we honor as she was not of the Tuatha de Danann.*p*: <Fall Equinox (September 21st) is celebrated when the sun *br*: is half way between Summer and Winter. The plans we made *br*: last Samhain should be near completion. Lugh continues in *br*: his role as Patron, representing the declining sun. The *br*: Morrigan starts her role as Matron now, *br*: and continues into Samhain.>*br*:*br*: "One more time, the Celts didn't celebrate the Equinox. *br*: Why would you have the master of Crafts and such a fine *br*: warrior and shining example of all that is Celtic, represent *br*: the declining sun???"*p*     Because he was in his full power at Lughnasadh, when the sun is hottest (when he should have been), and is going out of the cycle now to be replaced again by the Dagda at Samhain.*p*     *br*: "Again, I mean you know disrespect in pointing these *br*: errors out to you, it is just that it seems that so much of *br*: your so called F.A.Q., stems from far too much reading of *br*: non-scholarly material. *p*     There are no errors in this FAQ, although I can see that we may want to elaborate on some things. The "errors" were only devised in Tay's mind, and as we have been able to see, there are many of those errors in that mind. :-)*p*:I *br*: think what you are trying to accomplish is admirable, *p**br*     How can she when she does not believe in Druids?*p*: but I *br*: think that your study system needs a total revamp. I  looked *br*: at your resource list and you have in the neighborhood of 5 *br*: really good works listed on there. *p*     It is unfortunate if she believes that this is our entire study system.*p*     Okay, Draoi...I'm done I think. Anything to add?*p*Leigh
Druids Awaken! A Call to Arms :-)
TopazOwl
633
Wed Aug  2 12:52:39 2000