Re: The Roman Catholic Apology Infiniti Mon Oct 5 07:12:55 1998 Beirdd wrote,*br*: While it has not yet hit the Summerlands boards to a great *br*: degree, one of the current hot topics on the pagan and *br*: druidic groups is the upcoming “apology” on the part of the *br*: Roman Catholic Church for the past persecutions of Jews and *br*: pagans.*p*It may not have been here before, but it is surely here now. <G>*p*(In the words of TopazOwl)*br*<much good information snipped>*br*: h) While Germany was a Christian country at the start of *br*: the war (the majority being Lutheran) it soon became evident *br*: that traditional religion had no place in the lives and *br*: plans of the leaders of Nazism, who are known to have sought *br*: to create a “German religion” for themselves which looked *br*: back to Germany’s pre-Christian past, as well as into fringe *br*: mysticism of many types, including the Jewish Kabbalah! It *br*: is abhorrent to think that any religious or even merely *br*: human group would be able to consider these monsters among *br*: their membership. Yet, for argument’s sake, while most of *br*: the German people may have remained Christian in word if not *br*: deed, their leaders had certainly decided to cloak *br*: themselves as “neo-pagans.” Their insult to humanity really *br*: knew no bounds -- they were sacrilegious monsters no matter *br*: the belief they claimed.*p*You know, as much as I hate to admit it, it would appear the Hitler and his lot were pagan. I hope no one esle is as precise as you have been here, Beirdd. This _could_ have some rather bad ramifications for pagans, even if we are not as they were. Just as their are some on "our side" of the religious "battle", there are people on the other side who may not chose to identify the differences between their (Nazi) "pagan" ways, and our.*p*<more good info snippage>*br*: Note that this list does not include persecutions by Jews, *br*: Mohammedans, Africans, Native Americans, Japanese, Chinese *br*: and other Christians, as well as persecutions for purely *br*: political motives.*p*And I for one thank you for it. I have always wondered why I find names like Joan of Arc on these lists...*p*<ah, just space snippage>*p*: From what I see, I fear that the great lesson which this *br*: upcoming apology can teach to everyone will be missed. This *br*: is one of the oldest and largest organized religions in the *br*: world trying to focus on its spiritual life, a thing that *br*: even small groups of open minded neo-pagans can’t do. *br*(already getting long <sigh>)*br*<yeah, more good info snippage>*br*(is snippage even a word?)*p*Beirdd, I agree with you very much on this, and it does my heart good to do so after the misdirection we took Friday night (if that is an appropriate thing to call it).*p*The only question I have (another of the $#^$()& questions) is, do you - or anyone else - know why the loooooong wait? I know, from takes I have had outside Summerlands (I really have to quit doing that) that a number of pagans feel that I is not real. They have stated as much to me, for whatever reason (and I figure you know a few of those from what you said <G>), that it is a stall tacktic, or whatever, and that he is hoping that, with the long delay (if it is such) everyone will come to the belief that the Church made the "apology" and everyone will forget it.*p*I, like yourself, would hate to see this be missed. Hence, i was wondering if anyone knew why the wait?*p*Michael The Roman Catholic Apology Beirdd 152 Sun Oct 4 18:39:26 1998