Re: Witch Stands up for Her Rights 
Infiniti

Wed Oct 21 12:54:38 1998
: Hmm... I disagree.  Prejudice like this doesn't appear *br*: overnight.  The hatred was always there.  But as long as *br*: everyone acted "normal", as long as they pretended *br*: that they were Christian, it had no target.  White *br*: supremicists can seem very nice -- when everyone around *br*: them's white.*p*You know, bigotry, ignorance, and prejudice can go both ways.  What state do you live in?  I live in Kentucky, a state believed to be full or rednecks and racists; a state rumored to be full of Christians.  Don't believe what you hear; read and listen to all the facts first, not just one side.  If you start a fight with 6,000 people, do you think they are going to be nice to you?  If you do, I don't know what planet you live on, but I'd like to join you.  Also, town of 6,000 people don't tend to have a large veriaty of religions.  You are reading more into the article than is there.  I'd wager a LARGE bet that 5,550 of the people in that town ARE Christian.  They have a strong love of their religion.  No where did it say they didn't think any other religion was right or wrong, or evn exiested.  Just that they were devoted to THEIR religion.*p*Point of fact: I live in the Baptist Bible Belt.  I have never once had these problems, and everyone who cares to ask, knows what religion I am (and they do ask, btw).  I am a well respected and know individual around here, and I have never once had a single problem over my religion (I have over politics, but that was with the politicians <G> They're gone now <G>).  There are less racists here (per capita) than in the large city I used to live in.  I have had less problems (being none) here, than I did in the larger, evolved city I used to live in.  I see less prejudice here than i did anywhere.  And I can tell you why.*p*: I found it very interesting that the fish symbol was adopted *br*: to show the town's love of "religion".  Which *br*: implies, strongly, that things other than Christianity are *br*: not religion.*p*: I don't think that's what's going on here, at all.  This has *br*: nothing to do with private actions.  No one's saying that *br*: people can't paint their houses in fishes, if that's what *br*: they wish to do.  What the ACLU is saying is that a town *br*: cannot favor one religion over another by adopting its *br*: symbols as the town's own. *p*This has everything to do with private actions!  The town is already Christian!  They are not favoring anything, they already are!  A symbol is only a symbol, people.  There is one on the town seal to the town I live near, so what.  I think it looks good, I don't care that it is there one bit.  I am certainly not going to fight 6,000 people to remove it because I, one person, doesn't want it there.  I thing the ACLU could find better things to do than stomp on 6,000 (+ or -) Christians.  We have far worse problems going on, but doing those things doesn't get the publicity that this will, so close to Halloween.*p*If you pick a fight, be ready to have a fight, not cry about it to the world.  She is picking a fight, and crying because the other side isn't nice to her for it.  Fight's go BOTH ways, and they are not nice.  Moreover, IT TAKES TWO TO FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*p*: I fully accept that if we allow discrimination against one *br*: religion, we allow it against all.  And that because of *br*: this, it's often necessary to fight hard to defend the *br*: rights of other faiths such as Christianity.  But I think *br*: that the town stepped over the line here, and the reactions *br*: of the townspeople give ample evidence of why the line had *br*: to be drawn in the first place.*p*I am a full advocator that if you are going to make a bed, you sleep in it.  Not a single thing in this article said anything about her religion being discriminated against.  It did say that she was not liked.I also didn't read a thing about the 16 year old son having problems, but the 14 year old daughter is being home schooled because of the trouble she's having.  Why is the son not seeming to have these problems?  Could it be that he is not fighting?  I have read the article twice, and I still see nothing about religious discrimination.  All I see is a woman who picked a fight with 6,000 people, and is bellyaching to the AP because she can't handle it.*p*We are talking about a symbol, people.  You spend religious icons every day at the store, and it never bothered you.  If you don't like the damn symbol, don't look at it.  Just bacause it is there does not, in any way, mean that other people are not welcome.  it means that in 1990, 6,000 (+ or -) Christians in a town of 6,000 (+ or -) desided they wanted a fish on thier town seal.  i have been to Republic Missouri.  They are nice people, and they are not nearly as prejudice as you might think they are.  But, like all people, they fight back when someone picks a fight with them.*p*: I used to work for Cornell University, which banned all *br*: displays of religious symbols in the workplace.  I thought *br*: that was a terribly noxious ruling and one begging to be *br*: challenged.  The University's argument is that as employees *br*: we are representatives of the University, and if we were to *br*: display a religious symbol it would imply that the *br*: University favored that faith.  To me, that's silly:  it *br*: would be as if in this case, the ACLU had insisted that the *br*: town aldermen couldn't wear crosses.*p*If it is silly of a University, why is it NOT silly for a town to do it?  You are fighting to have the town do just what the University did.  Which is it?  Do you realize that is where this goes?  Do you also realize that a large number of towns and cities in the US have religious icons in their seals?  Same for a number of Universities and Collages?  Do you also realize that one person in 6,000 telling them to spend money to replace something is a bit silly?*p*If you pick a fight, you will have a fight.  There are far better was to fix this than Mrs. Webb or the ACLU is taking.  In my opinion, both parties here (Webb and ACLU) are in the wrong - and that came from a pagan.  Force only begets force.  You may have heard that you can get more flies with honey than with vinegar...*p*: Cornell's "compromise" was to have a ban in theory *br*: and then, in actuality, to turn a blind eye to violators.  *br*: (Not a particularly sensible solution, in my book!)*p*Sounds like a great idea to me.  That way the university advocates no religion, and everyone has the right to wear their necklaces and whatnot.  I like the unofficial/official policy.*p*: My boss was a fundamentalist and had numerous small crosses *br*: placed throughout her office, so one day I brought in a *br*: little pentacle and put it beside my adding machine, where *br*: no one could see it unless they were sitting at my desk.  *br*: Unfortunately, my boss was in the habit of sitting at my *br*: desk and darn near swallowed her tongue.  She took me -- *br*: into her cross-bedecked office! <g> -- and explained *br*: that University policy forbade the display of religious *br*: symbols, so I had to remove my pentacle.  I pointed out her *br*: six or seven crosses, and I said, "Sandy, we have a *br*: choice.  If we can act like reasonable, tolerant adults, we *br*: can both have our symbols.  But if I have to hide mine, I'm *br*: going to insist that you hide yours too."  She thought *br*: about it for a bit and decided that that pentacle wasn't *br*: quite so intolerable as she'd figured.*p*And, if you decided to fight with her instead of resonably descuss it with her, what do you think the outcome would be?  The unofficail policy at work is not to have religious icons visible.  Mindy has a small picture of Jesus on her desk, and most of the girls wear crosses.  I have a icon on my ring finger, one around my neck, and I have a small on on my desk.  We have these things, only because we can all play ing the same playground together, and _I_ never got around to disbanning the old policy.  I happen to be the owner.  If we couldn't all play in the same playground together, I would have all of us, including myself, put away the "toys"; no more icons (which goes for me).*p*You guys really need to quit looking for the fights and get on with you religions.  No matter what you do or where you go, there will always be someone who does not like you.  And some of those will use your religion as an excuse as to why.*p*Searles once told me, there are rarly bad people, just misunderstandings (he said it more eloguently).  I agree.  Maybe you should take a look at things from a different view (the afore mentioned one) before passing judgement on 6,000 people.  I would hate to think Searles was wrong.*p*Michael*br*The truth about approval is this, you will never get it.
Re: Witch Stands up for Her Rights 
Jenny
85
Wed Oct 21 06:11:10 1998